Subscribe to RSSArt Of Noise
The trains are back and for some Aucklanders, it appears that’s bad news.
The number of complaints about train noise are on the increase and it’s something people are just going to have to get used to as frequency increases and extra services such as Onehunga and Manukau come on board to add to the rail network.
Our inbox is often full of complaints from people who either think this is the official home of the Auckland train service or want to copy AKT in to their complaint or want us to pursue it for them.
And the number one complaint and growing is about early morning train noise.
I don’t know what to suggest because trains make noise along the tracks; freight trains are longer and do feel as though they go on for ever and may, as correspondents suggest, wake them up in the middle of the night as they get disturbed by something one calls “sounding like an earthquake rumble.”
And part of the hazard warning procedure is that trains do have to use their horns to warn anyone or vehicle wandering across a level crossing.
And in order to provide a train service that is indeed a service for early morning commuters, trains have to start before some people are awake or the train has to get to its starting destination.
Here are some recent complaints:
‘We live in St mary’s close on Parnell road along side the rail way. Normally suffer from the morning train noise at around 5:30 when the first train start in the morning. the noise is ridiculous and the house is trembling. I sincerely hope that i am not the first one to complain on this as there are many houses along side the railway and I believe all of us are suffering from it.
I do understand that the electrification will be done on 2013-2014, but before then, can you please do sth to reduce the noise that we have to live on everyday? Thank you!”
‘I am a light sleeper at the best of times and when we bought the place never noticed the trains. Now I am disturbed from early morning by the sound of trains. Are they different trains that are now noisier than before which is why we hear them or is it because they now run more often. And why do they have to keep making that bloody horn noise. It’s like boy racers down Queen St showing off.’
‘Why do trains have to start so early in the morning? I am on night shift and it is impossible to sleep when I get back because I hear the loud rumble all the time complete with the train horn. Will you promise the electric trains will be silent?’
I have also had complaints this week from two motorists angry at how often they are kept waiting at level crossings now the the trains are back on the Western Line especially around Avondale and Morningside.
They are annoyed they wait for one train and then kept waiting for some minutes until a train coming the other way turns up.
Said one angry email (minus the f word):
“Why do we have to wait minutes until the other train arrives. They should let the cars through and the train could wait if necessary when it comes around the corner so the crossing arms come down again.”
I have sent them a link to the earlier post about how the level crossing issue was going to be addressed for electrification but wasn’t because of the cost of making changes and the fact no one would step up and accept funding responsibility.
Most of you coming to this site of course welcome the trains but it’s going to be interest as such frustrations grow amongst those who are annoyed by the presence of trains in their neighbourhood.
Back in June we reported how Mt Albert residents who live near the Baldwin Avenue station had started an Auckland-wide campaign against train horns.
They launched a petition saying the train horns are annoying and disruptive especially when the first commuter trains roll past well as early as 430am, disturbing young sleeping children.
But their complaint is not just about the early morning trains – they say babies or young children can not sleep during the day.
The campaign claims this horn activated signalling system “is fairly unique to the Western Line and is outdated having been in use for several decades. It can be replaced by other more modern unobtrusive means.”
They demanded “the rail system be improved to the standard it is in most West European Countries where train horns are only sounded in emergencies.
KiwiRail explained that the system is being upgraded as part of the electrification signalling upgrade but the residents also complained about the train announcements over loudpeakers at stations.
Said one local resident, in comments to the debate on the earlier post:
‘To all the posters who complain at the local residents you do have a point that living next to a rail corridor / Station there will be noise however you do have to look at this in context. The train driver who blasts the horn at the station at 5.30am when nobody is on the platform ? The loudspeakers on some of the platforms that can be heard for hundreds of metres.’
Let’s hope the Herald doesn’t get hold of all this and start adding it as reasons why Auckland doesn’t need trains!
28 Comments
I live in London and back onto the overland (big trains) railway tracks. The house has double glazing and I can’t here the trains when the windows are shut. During the summer when it’s sleep time I open the windows on the other side of the house for fresh air when I’m asleep. (That’s the only downside) The upside is that I live close to a railway station, I don’t have neighbours at the back, and I can have parties cause who it going to complain about the noise?
If they don’t like the noise move somewhere else, it seriously pisses me off when people move into a neighbourhood through which there is an existing activity that has been going on since before they were born and then complain about it.
For the signalling issue, it is being fixed/improved but can’t happen overnight even though we would all love it to be (it would make the train system more reliable after all). Train noise is harder to fix, electrics will be quieter and have less vibration but it won’t solve everything and it will do nothing for freight trains.
When I was buying a house, I looked at a place near rail tracks. When I mentioned the rail to the agent, she promptly responded, “we only have light rail in Auckland, it’s not that bad at all”… Since I am too a light sleeper, I decided to buy a place within walking distance to the train station but not as close as to be right next to the tracks. It’s all about the due diligence when choosing where to live… Similarly to @DanC, when we lived in Vancouver, we actually wanted to live right next to the rail (skytrain) tracks, as that meant easy access to the skytrain. The difference there though is that the skytrain ***IS*** light rail (no vibration) and is completely fenced off (no horns), and once the windows are closed, you really cannot hear anything.
As per my sentement towards Western Spring moaners, Diddums.
when they are purchasing a house, location is one of the things they should be checking.
Seriously what is up with some of the people in Mt Albert / Mt Eden / etc. if it’s not Western Springs, then it is Eden Park, if not Eden Park then rail, what next? Hopefully the different locations for the official RWC parties will not make too much noise.
What did the person in St Mary’s think the rails were for when they moved into the house?
Do the people next to the motorways complain, especially where there are hills?
I agree GJA these people are so sad. I couldn’t think of any worse than to live next to a motorway.
On the Tram subject I was down ChCh last Sep and saw first hand the ongoing road works slowly, but surely what was just a tourist trap using old Trams on a sightseeing route is now gradually evolving into an extented Tram / Light Rail system. Well done Canturbury.
I’m thinking of moving next to an airport and complaining about the noise of the planes.
It’s interesting to compare road vs. train noise. Maybe trains seem noisier because between trains you hear the silence (you know what I mean) and realise how nice peace and quiet is. Motorways are a constant drone and you don’t realise what you’re missing.
It is possible to reduce train noise with fences (at great expense no doubt). I’ve noticed them on high speed routes in Spain and France whenever the route goes near a village.
I’ll grant the diesel locomotives are noisy but of course that railway up Parnell (ref complaint #1) has been there for 100 years. Did those residents somehow miss that when they decided to buy/rent there?
Granted, the push-pull loco hauled sets are louder than the DMUs which used to run almost exclusively, but they’re only temporary anyway, unlike the outer suburbs of, say, Boston and Chicago, where they’re permanent.
Tell them to move and think more carefully about where they buy next time.
Sick and tired of NIMBY’s
Oh I know, lets go for MagLev trains
Tonight I will be playing the devil’s advocate. I think a lot of the complaints seem to say that things a worse now than prior to the works. I think this has been caused by.
1. People forgetting how loud they were before.
2. Contractors cutting down trees alongside the corriders to prepare for the wires (as happened outside my place). These may have provided some sound blocking.
3. Increased frequencies along the lines.
From my observations I think some of these concerns are valid. I live 20 metres from the Western Line and my bedroom backs on to the track. Here are my proposals.
1. Some drivers insist on standing on the horn for several seconds. Train drivers to just give a quick puff.
2. I have noticed that the loco pulled units are considerably louder than the self propelled units. Use self propelled units prior to morning peak and in the evening where possible.
Discarding these compaints will only lead to more bad blood between Auckland Transport and the affected residents. This could lead to what was a minor quibble about sound turning into a full scale revolt at trains and I don’t think anyone here wants to see that.
“Discarding these compaints will only lead to more bad blood between Auckland Transport and the affected residents. This could lead to what was a minor quibble about sound turning into a full scale revolt at trains and I don’t think anyone here wants to see that.”
What can AT do about it? Seriously? The NIMT and NAL have been here before anyone else. If you decide to live next to live railway tracks, you can soon expect noise.
As for the “disturbing sleeping children” complaint - I have two daughters under 4, and both sleep through massive container transfer and bulk freight trains passing through Tironui. Their bedroom is not more than 50 metres from the Down main to Papakura.
We’ll next hear complaints that locomotive engineers aren’t warning people they’re pulling a train through and killing people because they’re no longer using their horns!
“What can AT do about it? Seriously? The NIMT and NAL have been here before anyone else. If you decide to live next to live railway tracks, you can soon expect noise.”
Yes the tracks have always been there, but recently the operation has changed significantly. Going from one or two trains an hour to one every ten minutes.
“As for the “disturbing sleeping children” complaint – I have two daughters under 4, and both sleep through massive container transfer and bulk freight trains passing through Tironui. Their bedroom is not more than 50 metres from the Down main to Papakura.”
People are different, what bothers one person may not bother another.
“We’ll next hear complaints that locomotive engineers aren’t warning people they’re pulling a train through and killing people because they’re no longer using their horns!”
As if the bells, lights and barier arms are not enough?
Why is everyone treating this as an attack on trains? No one in those complaints that admin posted said they want the trains stopped entirely, they just want some mitigation of the effects while we wait for electrification.
James B
I think your point Nr 1 hits it right on the head - people just liked the quiet over the last weeks, and now they realise what was absent.
As for number 2, you are right again, but not quite for the right reason - trees and shrubs do not provide sound barrier effects at all. Noise experts have studied this intensively - even a whole forest or bush of several dozen meters or more depth provides absolutely marginal sound buffering. What is at work here is the PSYCHOLOGICAL effect. People now see the trains more, plus they THINK trees gave them a sound barrier effect.
As for James B - I agree with you that we should moderate the language a bit here. I agree that these people have limited right to complain with the rail line having been there a long time ago - but we should not attack them as morons for feeling that their situation has worsened. The situation HAS changed, there is more noise, and earlier in the day.
As for the request to change something before electrifitcation - how???
There is very little you can do about train noise short of upgrading the train fleet, and upgrading the whole trackwork (joining the rails better, improving the tamper etc…) - that is very expensive. And because our transport minister thinks rail is a waste of money, our freight trains use decades old rolling stock that is old and squealy (can’t call it squeaky anymore). Yes, we could improve that, but from what money? At least the electric trains are likely to be somewhat quieter.
James – yes DMU’s make less noise and vibration than the loco hauled trains but its not as easy as just using them on the morning or night runs. A train heading out west at 5:30 in the morning might become a train that starts heading back to the city at 6am, that will get to Britomart just before 7 where it turns around and heads back out west again to become a train that heads into the city at 8am, right in the middle of the peak hour when we need the maximum capacity. To change the train half way through would probably increase the operational costs and then people would complain about increased subsidies for PT so it is a no win situation.
Train horn noise could be completely removed except emergencies by grade separating all crossings but who will pay for it? (would also remove car driver frustration)
Commuter train noise and vibration should be reduced by electrification – 3 years away.
Freight train noise could be reduced by noise walls but who pays considering freight trains have been running on some lines for more than 100 years.
Freight train vibration can be reduced but again who pays as it as again its not like Kiwirail is flush with cash
Oh those poor Auckland complaining about train noise. I feel so sad that they have empty lives. My house is an older one no double glazing and I live in a city. AKT know I live right next to a railway line and a railway crossing. I have freight trains coming past every day. The horns are sounded and the crossing bells ring. I don’t even realise that is happening. However two things I tend to notice. 1. If the bells carrying on ringing and no trains appear it means a fault in the system. Kiwi Rail acts when I ring them and let them know. They send a technician out, no matter what time it is. 2. The bigger and most annoying thing is empty Trucks with B trains that travel at speed in excess of 50km/h over the railway crossing. They bounce and trailer wheels leave the road. They also cause my house to shake and often wake me at night thinking that somebody as knocked on my door. Don’t complain about the train’s horn. It takes considerable distance for a train to stop, totally unlike a car. Yet of course trucks and cars still drive onto railway crossing when the bells are going and even have gone around barrier arms. Wake up those people.
I stay right by the train tracks love the sound, sleep great with the window open, harden up.
Repeating my comment above which is awaiting moderation. Links taken out.
I’ll grant the diesel locomotives are noisy but of course that railway up Parnell (ref complaint #1) has been there for 100 years. Did those residents somehow miss that when they decided to buy/rent there?
Granted, the push-pull loco hauled sets are louder than the DMUs which used to run almost exclusively, but they’re only temporary anyway, unlike the outer suburbs of, say, Boston and Chicago, where they’re permanent.
Anyway, who do I complain to about the excessive noise all day and night caused by combustion engines going up and down Queen St?
One thing missing from this debate is the fact that the Regional Growth Strategy has specified town centres and the areas along the rail corridors as targets for intensification.
This was one of the strong arguments used by ARC/ARTA and the local councils in support of electrification. When the electrics come in and the big diesels disappear I think most of the complaining will stop - except for the freights.
One simple solution to a lot of the noise problem is to get rid of the ancient law requiring trains to sound horns at crossings.
This is a bit like requiring cars to be preceded by a man with a red flag. If cars ignore bells, lights and barriers then a decent crushing is a form of natural selection.
All of the complaints are somewhat (not entirely) reasonable.
Tell the residents that the diesels will be gone soon (explain that they would be gone this year if National was not delaying them).
Get the drivers to stop being ridiculous with horns, and get on with the business of putting in automated crossings in, and bridges/underpasses where possible. Once we stop the mega-investment in new motorways, there should easily be enough for this. It has to be done long-term anyway, why not now?
In Melbourne, the only reason the horn is ever used is to warn patrons on platforms that an express or regional is coming through without stopping.
The terms of debate are so limited in NZ because of a sick political culture.
linz - re the growth strategy - nodal growth is the way to go - not corridor. Unless you underground rail - you’ve never get quaility intensification along a rail corridor (or even a busy arterial corridor).
That is a key issue for new spatial plan. Having said that though - the key to PT is both job and home have to be on PT. Everyone talks about people around rail - but most jobs aren’t. Those corridors should have greater commercial focus. And obviously they will cope better with noise issues.
And stations like Mt Albert, which can easily be built over (with noise contained) are ideal for residential and commercial. But parts of teh corridor like morningside s/be kept for commercial.
I would love some feedback as to what others think..
The Christmas shutdown signs were placed to notify passengers that there would be no trains running.
However passengers still turn up to the station and at some stage a loudspeaker message informs them that there are no trains. All stations are linked so if someone turns up at one station all the stations get the message.(on each line)
Do you think that loudspeaker messages over shutdown periods are suitable. (will affect local residents)
Or blocking the entrance to the station so passengers do not enter the station (and wait).
ie no loudspeaker messages. (does not affect local residents)
Will electrification improve the situation much?
If the rule book says that a driver will whistle for a level crossing then that is what he/she will do. There is no discretion. What should happen is that all level crossings should be closed and the road put on a bridge or in a tunnel - with the cost borne by the roading authority of course.
The archaic whistle for signal procedure should be gone with the resignalling - if it isn’t then a signals engineer or two need to find new employment.
“The terms of debate are so limited in NZ because of a sick political culture.”
Negative much? This kind of discussion, this level of “reasonable complaints mixed up with some nimby-ism” exists in every society. I think our political culture is pretty good - arguments and even outright fights are a sign of a healthy state in my view. Hoping that everyone involved in those debates will be reasonable, civil and informed is unrealistic though.
About the only thing I can see we really lack in Auckland is a second big paper to compete with the mono-culture that is the Herald.
my wife and I moved into a property next to the railway 2 years ago. while the noise of the tarins does bother us we have no complaint with it because we knew what we were getting into. however it is the horn that really winds me up. there are some considerate drivers that barely use it or not at all during the quiet hours. some though feel the need to hold the horn for 3+ seconds for every crossing. as we live behind baldwin ave this means 1 toot for the ped crossing and 1 for each of the 2 road crossings. understandable at 5pm on a monady but 5am on a saturday?…
we are now moving because the new platform means every one can see into our garden.
Great to see all the work done over the shutdown period and Kiwirail’s notice to residents relieved our concerns. Dust was the only issue for us during the lowering of the Purewa tunnel.The trains through the valley by Meadowbank are clearly running faster and for some reason seem slighty quieter. Bring on electrification!
I still have an issue with all night freight trains stemming from the lack of consultation before the Wiri Inland Port opened last year. Kiwirail could give some thought to scheduling and how it can reduce noise and vibration levels on trains they operate when most of us are sleeping. With noise, even slight reductions are significant.
Locomotive choice, exhaust modifications, driver training, stabling, load optimisation, greasing bearings, brake maintenance all seem pretty easy areas where things could be improved. e.g. the little DH class shunters slowly grind up the valley and make an awful popping sleep depriving racket and should be used during daylight hours or in the yards.