Subscribe to RSSHOP Confusion Answered By AT
Confusing, conspiracy theories, cynical…..the reaction to the much-awaited Auckland integrated ticketing scheme HOP has not been as happy as one might have expected.
Readers don’t fully understand it -and there is wide suspicion the HOP card from Auckland Transport is a Snapper card by default or in disguise which has been sneaked in because Infratil was first in the market with its Wellington transport and retail card.
Or are there two cards?
It’s fair to say the explanations so far have not helped. Just when you think you get it, you get a whiff that something else is afoot.
The first tag on/off HOP ticket readers in buses
So Auckland Transport’s Sharon Hunter (Manager, External Communications) answers your questions. Thanks, Sharon.
So are there two cards because that’s the way it seems at the moment? Or will we end up with just one?
While red Snapper branded cards will work in Auckland for the next few months (during this first phase of the project) this will not be the case after the national standard platform comes on stream later this year. The Snapper card in Wellington is primarily a payment scheme for buses (NZ Buses). In practice it doesn’t work seamlessly for rail or ferry like transport cards in Hong Kong or the UK. HOP is a single card approach, for all types of transport and offers interoperability across all transport modes.
What our customers in Auckland clearly want is a single ticket, not two tickets or ten tickets but a single smartcard ticket. That is the point of the project- to simplify the customer experience and integrate transport modes. Auckland Transport is focused on the customer’s requirements through the provision of a single smartcard for Auckland. The HOP ticket is the long term smartcard for Auckland as rail and ferry equipment is designed in accordance with the NZTA national standard. In respect of the broader context of rolling out smartcards, Auckland Transport is focusing on the rollout of a single smartcard for the Auckland market.
So the aim is ONE card?
The point of the exercise is to provide them with a single smartcard that is interoperable on trains, buses and ferries.
“Will only HOP- branded cards be allowed to be used in the Auckland Integrated Ticketing scheme?”
This is not a technical issue but a scheme integrity issue. All participants in the Auckland scheme must meet AT’s requirements in terms of ticketing products, performance and commercial arrangements. One of these requirements will be HOP branding on cards for simplicity and clarity for both customers, bus drivers and other customer facing staff.”
So can you clarify once and for all: what is the difference between a HOP card and a Snapper card?
The Snapper card in Wellington is primarily a payment scheme for buses (NZ Buses). In practice it doesn’t work seamlessly for rail or ferry like transport cards in Hong Kong or the UK. HOP is a single card approach, for all types of transport and offers interoperability across all transport modes.
We hear about the card being introduced on buses but when can card holders begin using the HOP Card on trains and ferries?
No exact date yet but both will be prior to RWC 2011.
When will a fully integrated system be in place?
The end of 2012.
Who gets the money- Infratil / NZ Bus /Snapper or Auckland Transport?
Initially Snapper holds the float during the NZ Bus phase of the rollout-this is then handed to Auckland Transport later in the year and moving forward- once rail, ferry and all bus operators come on board.
Readers are calling out for a zonal system and thought that was one of the attractions of integrated ticketing. Will there be a zonal system?
Yes there will be. Best international practice is to separate the implementation of integrated ticketing and integrated fares. 2012 is the introduction of integrated ticketing based on current fare structure with a transfer discount. Integrated fares is planned after that, ie when integrated ticketing fully bedded down.
Those with NZ Bus Go Rider cards are being told to change them. Are Go Rider cards going?
They will be phased out. Those who hold Go Rider cards- can get a free swap over for a HOP card.
Another attraction was that this would be a national transport card. But can Aucklanders use their card in say Wellington and likewise Wellington commuters in Auckland? One would imagine this would especially be attractive during the RWC2011.
Technically yes in this first phase. However: Only HOP branded cards will be allowed to be used in the Auckland Integrated Ticketing scheme. This is not a technical issue but a scheme integrity issue. All participants in the Auckland scheme must meet AT’s requirements in terms of ticketing products, performance and commercial arrangements. One of these requirements will be HOP branding on cards for simplicity and clarity for both customers, bus drivers and other customer facing staff. Customers want one card.
Thanks for the clarification. Are we justified in feeling it has been confusing?
The system has deliberately been phased in. Chunking up a rather large elephant so to speak. With Phase One being rolled out on NZ Bus buses, the next phase a RWC 2011 ticket with trains, some ferries and buses and then the final phase in 2012 with all public transport operators.
39 Comments
Some good answers there - Thanks Sharon. I’m sure we’re all glad there will only be one card It’ll be less confusing for everyone.
Perhaps on a slightly unrelated note to what’s being discussed here, but is there a system in place for a single hop card to pay for two transactions in one go, i.e. you pay for yourself and someone else. Something as simple as this has actually been forgotten in a few cities I’ve visited and bus drivers have had to reset the system to let the scanner deduct money a second time in order to pay for two people
So zonal fares will be at some indeterminate date in the future. Awesome. When? 2013? 2014? 2020?
Really, really unimpressed with the total lack of clarity we’re getting on this issue. Glad to know that HOP isn’t just Snapper in drag, but no-penalty transfers is something that needs to happen much sooner than 24+ months in the future. I get that they want to separate the issues, but right now all we’re hearing is “sometime” not “this time”.
Even if they said “We’re waiting for the end of the stupidly-long contract with NZB to finish so that we can force them to accept zonal fares” that would give us a timeline. But we’re not even getting that.
“…no-penalty transfers is something that needs to happen much sooner than 24+ months in the future.”
While it would definitely be a good thing, why does it “need” to happen NOW NOW NOW?
“Even if they said “We’re waiting for the end of the stupidly-long contract with NZB to finish so that we can force them to accept zonal fares” that would give us a timeline.”
Do you think it might have something to do with AT actually having to maintain a business relationship with NZB right now, and saying things like that publically might not be the best way to do so?
There are some really unrealistic expectations in the transport-fan community.
Doloras, Why does it need to happen “NOW NOW NOW?” Because until it does it’s going to be incredibly difficult to improve resource utilisation across our increasingly-stretched public transport system. Using feeder buses is a non-starter if patrons have to pay extra, even though this would be a quick, easy, relatively-cheap way to improve service levels.
The system is struggling NOW NOW NOW, and it’s not going to get better without some real work on creating a proper network. What we have now is a bunch of disconnected routes, not a network. A network relies on transfers, but nobody’s going to use a network that forces them to pay every time they have to make a required change of service. Not going to happen.
I dunno Dolaras. Almost every day I read a press release about another large motorway project that has finished 6 months early or started 6 months early.
I couldn’t think of a single big public transport project in Auckland which this govt has had a hand in that hasn’t been pushed massively back past it’s deadlines - electrification, finishing much later than we were originally told, integrated ticketing, the same, the purchase of the EMUS, so late it’s ridiculous.
I can understand why people get frustrated.
I can’t understand why the project is taking so long. My understanding is it was meant to be a fairly off the shelf type system. This contract was let in 2009 and the rollout won’t be completed till 2012, 3 years later. Then only after that we can look at integrated fares.
As a comparison the company I work for is currently doing a complete system change where we have migrate millions of customers without impacting them, have to change features on our existing products and communicate these to customers and have to do things like completely change our website and it all has to happen over one normal weekend. The whole project is only taking about 8 months.
“…nobody’s going to use a network that forces them to pay every time they have to make a required change of service.”
Clearly that’s not true, because TOO MANY people are using the current, half-assed, creaky, unintegrated system.
3years is pretty good, look at overseas examples many of which take years longer and cost into the billions!
Doloras, way to not understand what I said. We don’t have a network, we have a bunch of disconnected routes. Most users get on at their nearest-to-source stop and get off at their destination, with no changes in between. The routes are designed so that there’s no need to transfer. That means we have buses doing the full haul from the back side of Papakura all the way to Britomart, which is a one-way journey time of well over an hour. We have buses doing the full haul from Britomart to Henderson, and Botany, and many points in between. If a return journey takes two hours and the service frequency is a lousy 30 minutes, that’s four buses, minimum. 20 minutes, six buses. 15 minutes, eight buses. But if the buses just feed to trains, or to express buses, their trip is shortened significantly and your four buses could be doing 15 minute frequencies.
A network means timed connections to other services, not just a bunch of services that run entirely independently. We have the latter, not the former. That people use what we have doesn’t mean they’ll willingly use a network that carries financial penalties for forced changes of service. Make it cost more, and driving starts to look attractive again.
I think Matt means “the backside of Papakura”!
route planning and transfer fares are separate issues.
The fact that we’ve had a commitment to eventually switching to a zone-based system is good news, until now there had been no official comment on whether it would happen at all or we would just continue with the existing fares structure.
Regardless of how poorly connected the current network is, it is under pressure and being used. Routes and timetables certainly do need to be much better planned and connected than they are.
If co-ordination was to happen today, though the rapid network would not cope at peak times with feeder buses just pouring on more passengers that cant be accommodated.
joust, the buses that’d be freed up from the long, circuitous routes could be put onto high-capacity links. Start by designating shoulder space for bus lanes along the motorways, which could mostly be done quite easily and cheaply. Then have feeder buses into transfer points that’re close to on-ramps.
The other option is to find more trains, and start running some services that terminate at Newmarket to take advantage of the Central Connector for buses into the CBD. Take some load off Britomart, get buses running shorter services feeding to trains, and generally improve the system’s capacity.
Continuing on as we are is not an option when the time frame for improvements is currently sitting at 3+ years.
lots of services to the CBD are packed out, however there is plenty of spare capacity on off peak services in the suburbs.
Integrated ticketing would really help these services as the cost will be reduced, as at the moment people are penalised for transferring.
Also if different companies are used makes things much easier.
For example look at a journey from Manurewa to Manukau. Costs $1.80 on some services, and $3.40 on others, what a joke!
Off-peak coordination can happen now. however some peak buses competing with rail will need to be kept until we get the CBDRL, this still can be simplified to make it easier though.
Luke, that’s the route I use. I would prefer to catch the first bus, but Howick & Eastern is double the price, so I don’t use them. Their buses are never full.
Feel free to ask any other questions about Auckland Transport’s card.
Sharon Hunter
That route is definitely one that needs to be sorted out, services seem to run generally every 10mins, but then there are 20min gaps that make a mockery of the whole thing. I guess services that have come all the way from Britomart or the back end of Papakura are hopelessly out of time?
Same issues for the City - Great North, and Great South Roads, where multiple operators are running the same route.
Sharon - will there be an automatic top up option for the Hop card? In other words, can I link the card to my bank account so that it gets re-filled when it falls below, say, $10?
Or will we (we being those sometimes-disorganised people like me) - will we have the same issue as with pre-paid phones, i.e. suddenly being out of credit, and having to go back to recharge or pay cash?
Related to that, is there a long-term plan to phase out the ability to pay the driver?
And lastly, what are the investives to encourage most or almost all people to switch to the card as fast as possible, so we get quick and sizable benefits (i.e. reduced delay at stops while the drivers handle cash fares…)
Cash is legal tender & will always be acceptable on PT.
Matt, I think I have to reiterate that I agree with you about what our network SHOULD look like. I think that you, I, and AT (hi Sharon) are actually all in agreement on that. The problem is that AT have to do things to make this happen in the real world which require making compromises and doing deals with the powers-that-be in actuality. As I’ve said elsewhere, I think AT’s handling of Hop/Snapper has turned a negative (NZ Bus’s obstructionism) into a positive (smart-card ticketing introduced quickly).
I’ve repeated in the past that the massive negativity of PT fans - insisting that the glass is 20% empty and that any progress that actually happens in the real world doesn’t count - not only makes me feel uncomfortable, but makes it more difficult for us to “sell” PT to our reflexively car-using friends.
And now MasterCard have launched PayPass.
I’ve seen nothing to suggest any compatibility so RWC visitors will need two smartcards anyway! One for transport+small purchases at Snapper outlets, and another one for purchases like food and drinks within the RWC venues.
Oh and no Eftpos in the RWC venues either. It looks like it’ll be PayPass or cash.
Owen, not just “will always be”, but “must always be”. And even if someone wants to pay a three-stage fare with 10c pieces, the law still says that the operator cannot refuse them.
There’s nothing to say that cash cannot attract a penalty for the inconvenience, but the law states that cash (within limits: $5 for coins up to $1, $100 for coins up to $10 (really? We have $10 coins?!), any sum for coins greater than $10) must be accepted.
Andrew, sorry, what? No EFTPOS? Are they out of their tiny little minds?!
Clearly that scheme is aimed at tourists, who know no better than cash, because the locals will be stunned when they find out that normal plastic won’t be accepted.
Here’s the link Matt.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10718914
30% have voted they don’t care, haven’t got ticket.
@Matt No they are not out of their minds.
1. At the moment it is cash only at Eden Park food outlets.
2. They have a captive audience.
3. EFTPOS is slow and will hold up the line.
My point is the transport and fast micropayment smartcards - HOP, Snapper, and PayPass, should be interoperable. It looks like the first two will be, but this PayPass, which will be the only accepted non-cash payment at RWC venues, looks to be completely separate (and isn’t even rechargeable).
It would have been good to be able to supply just one smartcard to visitors (and locals!) that could be used more widely for all the above activities.
adding to my last comment …
The interoperable system would of course then continue well after the RWC and become the “next generation” payment system - and like Snapper currently does in Wellington (and now some places in Auckland), would integrate with EFTPOS terminals.
To demonstrate the interoperability I’m expecting, you can spend both your Hop or Snapper card balances at any Snapper-equipped retailer in AKL or WLG already.
James, ah, if there’s no EFTPOS already that’s a bit different. I thought they’d just decided to turn it off for the RWC, at the behest of Mastercard.
Not giving the slightest damn about sport (except for the conflict between wanting the AB’s to win but hoping that there’s truth in the anecdotal evidence about a major sporting loss being bad for the incumbent government) I’ve never been there.
Hi Mark,
At the moment you need to top up your card at a retail outlet, however once Auckloand Transport rolls out the full version of the card- yes you will be able to top up online. So that functionality is coming.
No long term plans to phase out someone to drive the buses!
Re incentives- well there are some good savings to be had by using the HOP card, I think that will provide a good, initial incentive. In respect of ease of swap over if you use a Go-Rider card now for example, we have Hop Helpers on the ground helping you swap your card over for free.
For further information head to http://www.myhop.co.nz, as well.
Cheers
Sharon
Sharon, thanks for your contributions.
How will HOP work with the multitude of fare products currently in use? Is it going to start off as just a stored-value card, or will it handle being a bus pass, a ferry pass, a rail pass, for all the various permutations thereof?
Given that journey discounts tend to accrue to passengers who have pre-purchased passes (eg: multi-stage bus, monthly ferry, etc), how is HOP going to compete if it’s just a stored-value card? The convenience of a single card probably isn’t enough of a pull on its own if the monthly cost of using PT stays static - or, worse, increases. Or is that where the enforced phasing-out of existing passes comes into it?
“yes you will be able to top up online. So that functionality is coming. ”
Thanks - but I was asking whether there will be the option of choosing AUTOMATIC top-ups, to save people the hassle of doing it over and over again?
@Owen
“Cash is legal tender & will always be acceptable on PT.”
I wouldn’t bet on that. Buses in several areas of London now require tickets to be pre-purchased as the drivers no longer carry cash. Might take a few years for it to happen in NZ but I think we will see the end of cash payments on public transport (and no doubt elsewhere as well) - cash handling is a notorious overhead for businesses, one they will avoid if possible. With the introduction of the Hop card and contactless payments systems in things like phones, there will be less and less need for cash.
Sharon,
Is the eventual new card an example of near field communication (NFC) payment systems being mooted for integration into future smartphones such as the iPhone?
If so is the ITS system designed to be future proofed or flexible enough to work with these smartphone features?
@Owen, 12.11pm
a quick legislative fix would fix that issue quickly.
Wellington tramway union concern about “ban on Snapper” cards http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4898698/Bus-drivers-set-for-Snapper-versus-Hop-confusion
I see AT have confirmed that the Hop/Snapper cards rolling out now will need to be replaced later in the year when the Thales system comes online.
“Auckland Transport spokeswoman Sharon Hunter said the Hop-branded Snapper cards could only be used to pay for public transport in Auckland until later this year, when Auckland Transport would replace them free-of-charge with a new type of Hop payment card that would also work on ferries and trains.
That card might in turn be phased out later in favour of a third type of payment card that could be used on public transport nationwide. ”
Why bother introducing a temporary card?
when will new zealand government stop invetnitng new ways to rip us off???
instead of new cards that will have to be on our minds and in our hands the entire journey so we don’t get panalised for forgetting to tag them off, they should fix their bloody services
- every day the trains are late
- the buses do not come
- etc etc etc
you know people why they want you to upload e $ on the card and limit you to 10 rides only?
because it’s another rip off
think!!!
they never care about people in this country
it’s not a convinience it’s that the country is broke but the kiwi rail has got a new office with the ergonomic chairs each $2,000
now the passengers have to pay for it
i