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At last, a physical sign that integrated ticketing is really happening and in time for the RWC 2011, even if it’s not the complete package.
This morning, construction of the first tag on, tag off facility begins in earnest at the Morningside train station.
Areas on both sides of the platform and near the tunnel that goes through to neighbouring New North Rd have been fenced off in preparation for the tag on tag off posts. Gates at stations was for a later stage of the project.
Mt Albert and Mt Eden stations will be next.
Auckland Transport promises ducting and cabling ready for rail tag on and tag off devices for all train stations on Auckland’s network will be done in time for Rugby World Cup 2011.
28 Comments
Great to see Auckland moving ahead.
Now, just order the dam electric units Steven Joyce delayed!
Is this similar to the gate systems in London/UK?
Martin
I suspect more like DLR in London, ie not gated. Gates only at Britomart and Newmarket; hopefully New Lynn too.
I hope these things are heavily vandalism-resistant. Not so much because they are more likely to be vandalised than others, but because of the anxiety it will cause when they break down (especially if a person cannot “tag off”).
It will need to be very transparent (i.e. communicated to the users) what happens when one cannot or forgets to tag off.
IIRC even Brit and newmarket will not get gates in stage one(RWC-ready)?
A little unfortunate given that having gates would reduce the amount of confusion over the need to hop-on/hop-off. As you pointed out mark. Though the bus situation is likely to cause more grief than trains simply with much higher numbers of people used to paying at the door “3 stages please?”
My question is with the integrated ticketing, will we be able to use a credit card to buy a ticket using this new system
Steved, While specific technical details have not been released I cannot see why not. There are going to be machines (~500kg) at every train station to issue tickets and to (i assume) top up hop cards. I assume these will accept electronic payments, especially in eftpos crazy NZ. In addition I have been advised that it is technical feasible to set up automatic top ups to a smart card. For example $20 could be removed from your bank account / credit card when your card balance drops below say $10.
Hello Scott
Hopefully this will never happen that $20 could be removed from your bank account / credit card when your card balance drops below say $10. I’ll be happy to be informed that I’m below $20, for the reason I may not want a topup at this time.
A auto top up system would be something that people would have to opt into (and provide authority for the automatic removal of a limited amount of there funds). Naturally there are some who will appreciate never having to wait at a machine to top up, Others (such as yourself) who don’t like that idea will most likely not opt in.
Re your point about a reminder, when I was in Hong Kong, (which also uses a Thales smart card system) every time your octopus card was charged the reader had two displays. the upper displayed the amount of the charge, and the lower your remaining balance, so it is easy to keep track of your balance.
It is up to AT to decide what features they implement.
Hello Scott
Thanks for the input
Regards
Steved
in Perth, if you sign up to it, when you card drops below $6 it tells you.
well it basically says “you balance is low, please top up”.
the idea works well here. but I’m worried, are stations like Pukekohe and the ones in the far north going to get these machines as well?
it needs to be through the whole network or whats the point?
also people who use the cards, get 10% off what the cash would be, students get 25% off and people who use the auto top up get 20% off the fair.
and if your a student and you use auto, you get 35%.
I hope this works, there is no reason why it wont and there is nothing hard about that the media needs to make a fuss about when it happens.
if Perth can handle it, then it should be a breeze for Auckland.
Thales don’t operate the octopus system.
“In addition I have been advised that it is technical feasible to set up automatic top ups to a smart card.”
This is currently available in Melbourne with Myki, however they do have some problems as it occasionally takes 24 hours or more to be processed (not too handy if you travel daily).
“This is currently available in Melbourne with Myki, however they do have some problems as it occasionally takes 24 hours or more to be processed (not too handy if you travel daily).”
As long as the mimimum limit is set to greater than 2 days worth of heavy traveling this shouldn’t pose a problem.
“joust says: Thales don’t operate the octopus system.”
You are correct. for some reason I though they did, Thanks for the correction.
Anyway Octopus is Thales strategic partner for the auckland project so the system is likely to be somewhat similar (well at least the clearing house bit anyway)
“the idea works well here. but I’m worried, are stations like Pukekohe and the ones in the far north going to get these machines as well?
it needs to be through the whole network or whats the point?”
To my understanding, the tag-on’s at some train stations are solely for convenience where large masses are likely to board or disembark? that way, you can tag on before boarding the train. I understand that the trains themselves will also have tag-on and tag-off points. Like the buses.
So leaving (at least initially) many stations without tag-on tag-off posts should be okay.
Mark, are you sure about that?
It seems to be a very expensive option. There are more train sets than minor stations.
It also sounds operationally complicated, you don’t want the train doors being clogged with people tagging off at every station.
Will we still have monthly passes? How will this work, especially if you forget to tag off?
“Mark, are you sure about that?
It seems to be a very expensive option. There are more train sets than minor stations.”
No, I must say I am not SURE of it. But it is my understanding.
Also, you should realise that they are literally fixing up many hundreds and hundreds of buses - with two tag-on/tag-off devices in every one of them. A few train readers on top of that won’t be a huge added cost compared to the total.
The tag posts will be at the stations not on the trains themselves. Buses obviously have to to have the reader on them but the cost is borne by the operator and they can choose what type of reader they like providing it will integrate with the whole system.
why would you not have machines? that is just bloody stupid, it means you still have to people on boarding selling tickets.
honestly if you want people in the outer regions to use the trains and buses and get cars off they motorway, they need to get the same services.
once again Pukekohe gets roped into a super city, we help pay for it and we get nothing.
in Perth every single station has tag on tag off points.
its useless having them on the train and that is just a bloody stupid idea, what happens if 50 people want to tag off at a station?
so what the train has to sit there and wait for every single person?
get real. Only buses have that option.
trains having that idea would be nuts. and if they trains switched lines during the day, they’d all have to be reset on gps.
honestly check the transperth website for pictures and ideas.
the system here is awesome for the size of the population and how quickly people just adapted to it was great.
and as for monthly passes, you wouldn’t need one.
over here again, its zoned and the card when it is tagged on or off is tapped into a gps reader.
it will work out the fare itself, if you don’t tag off (as I have done a few times when out on the drink) next time you tag on you get charged a default fare.
over here the most you can pay for a trip is $9.60, if you have made a few trips in a day, once you hit that $9.60 mark, from my experience, you actually don’t pay anymore.
its always been like this, because you can by a whole system day pass (after 9am) for $9.60.
there are no monthly passes because either
a. your card is auto topped up.
b. you top it up manually on a bus.
it is so simple its painful.
I’ve already talked about students, and I found out yesterday, seniors get 25% discount off the cash fair.
school kids that have them all fares are 50 cents each trip.
I think the train units are re-consoled with the server in real time, (and as such must be “on-line”). The bus units are just to be re-reconciled at the end of each shift (when the bus is at the bus yard). It would be very expensive to get reliable internet (talking 99.99%+ up time) into a mobile unit.
having both on and off board payment systems is likely to lead to increased confusion.
if Pukekohe wasnt in the super city you really would be getting nothing, there would be no train services.
Luke, we had trains before the super city BS.
We aren’t getting anything anyway, no electric lines, no extra trains, no extra buses.
But they are happy to take the tax dollars from our area.
what are you trying to prove with your post?
@carl thats because you were covered by the ARC, but that doesnt exist any more. Why would auckland transport run trains that dont serve its ratepayers?
I certainly agree the super city process has been a shambles, and feel for communities like pukekohe that have been ignored somewhat.
But pukekohe needed to be part of it because it is very linked with Auckland.
Carl - I think the point is that if Pukekohe wasn’t part of the rest of the region then the current funding that is paid to run trains down there would stop as why would Auckland pay subsidies for people who aren’t to have a train service (regardless of if it is electric or not)
As for integrated ticketing, there has never been any mention that Puke will ‘miss out’, in fact considering that once they put gates in at Britomart and Newmarket, you will have to have a ticket to get on/off the platform so they will have to put them down there.
Scott - Yes that is my understanding, trains and ferries update almost instantly as they are hard wired however buses will depend on the solution chosen by the bus provider. The most likely system is one where the data is reconciled nightly but they could also choose to have a system where it the data is downloaded at a few major stops. Either way it doesn’t matter to much as it is the card that stores the balance and has the smarts to determine costs rather that the read.
Can I just add a comment, that I think all stations should be gated and that the tagon/tagoff system is integral part of getting through the gate system.
Although Sydney’s system is not the same. I lived in St Claire, proabably as far out as Pukekohe. And use to go to St Mary’s station to catch a train to the Sydney CBD. I’d a buy a return ticket from the vending machine, pass through the reader to go through the gate. Jump on the train. Get to Central and then pass the card through the reader to exit the turnstile gate. What i’m kinda saying is secure platforms prevent the need on train systems to manage fair collection.
Does anyone else have experience with Sydney system as I thought it ran very well.